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Epistulae Ciceronis
A Perfectly Squiffy Jag

"Is your community becoming a third world city?"

19.01.06 Thursday
12:02 am - "Is your community becoming a third world city?" Previous Entry Share Next Entry



"Furthermore, we have yet to discuss the links between Home Depot and the National Council of La Raza, an anti-American organization that supports open borders, amnesty and drivers' licenses for illegal aliens." More, plus Mexifornia).


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comments
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lormagins [19.01.06::11:54]
#1: i like how they made sure that their expert researcher has a last name that sounds "hispanic-like" in an effort to try to convince whitey that they aren't racists.

#2: i don't give a rat's ass if people immigrate to this country. why? because we all did, including (still in theory) the native americans. everyone came here from somewhere else. i'm sorry, but just because a person is such a mutt that they have no idea who their grandparents were, much less their ancestors, that does not make them a native and thus able to hold some sort of superiority over others. katethoughts and i had a discussion on this after watching "gangs of new york." what pisses me off about the bitchfest against illegal immigration is that the majority who bitch are those who have no idea of their lineage and thus, most likely, their own ancestors came here without papers because their country sucked ass and they wanted to escape it. we were founded by people leaving a bad social or economic situation in their native lands.

sure, i'd prefer it if people would immigrate legally. and i've looked into immigrating to this country and what it entails. we went through hell just trying to get a work permit for my white, degree-holding ex-fiance from england (a country we're supposedly on good terms with), and we were never able to get it. the united states has a vicious immigration policy unless you're from a country that the U.S. has beat the crap out of (or assisted in such) and thus wants to repair their image and so you can claim asylum. personally, i would like to see us have an immigration policy like canada's or new zealand's. t
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herbaliser [19.01.06::04:42]
canada's immigration policy is pretty harsh too.
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lormagins [19.01.06::04:49]
i checked it out and i already qualify for a full work visa even without a job offer, and i'm not holding any postgraduate degrees or anything - they seem more open to people coming in and from what i saw on the rules and regulations involved, it's not bad at all.
herbaliser [19.01.06::04:56]
lormagins [19.01.06::05:32]
herbaliser [19.01.06::05:34]
lormagins [19.01.06::07:36]
herbaliser [19.01.06::07:48]
lormagins [19.01.06::08:03]
tyrven [20.01.06::12:51]
tyrven [19.01.06::09:41]
tyrven [19.01.06::09:32]
tyrven [19.01.06::09:27]
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fritz_da_kat [19.01.06::04:49]
Actually, Canada's probably the only country left that allows self-sponsored immigration. A paradise for the brain drain from eastern europe.
tyrven [19.01.06::09:44]
fritz_da_kat [20.01.06::01:05]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:43]
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joannemerriam [19.01.06::06:27]
canada's immigration policy is pretty harsh too

It's not an open-door policy, certainly, but since Canada accepts twice as many immigrants per capita as America does, it can't be equally harsh.

My husband (an American) almost immigrated to Canada - we decided on the US instead because of work opportunities in his field - and I have immigrated to the US so I have some experience with both systems. My impression is that the US is harder to immigrate to legally not because it's meaner but because it's much more confusing. It's just very difficult to get the information you need to navigate the system.
tyrven [19.01.06::09:40]
ex_grammargi983 [20.01.06::03:29]
tyrven [20.01.06::03:36]
joannemerriam [20.01.06::01:16]
tyrven [20.01.06::11:26]
joannemerriam [21.01.06::03:29]
tyrven [21.01.06::09:13]
joannemerriam [21.01.06::10:03]
herbaliser [23.01.06::10:36]
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fritz_da_kat [19.01.06::05:12]
I don't think that your argument (and I've heard it before many times) that we all immigrated from somewhere else (I know I did, hehe) therefore we don't have the right to accuse anybody for being illegal - has much practical value, except if you read it as "Why can't we all get along?"

The truth is, illegal immigration is a real problem, both in the United States and in other developed countries, and people have different reactions to it, ranging from nazi to all-embracing. There is no "right" immigration policy, it will always be biased toward protecting the us citizens versus the aliens, some of it would be un-enforceable (how the hell do you protect that huge southern border?), and a point system like Canada's would still leave lots of people out, favoring those with higher skills and education.

After seeing much of Europe and living there for years, I realized the United States have a society far more open and tolerant toward immigrants than any other country, that's why I chose to stay here and call it home.

That being said, IMO the only policy that would keep illegals (let's be honest, that spells mexicans) out of the US would be one that would convince them to stay in Mexico, that would offer them at home something more than a hovel and a bowl of rice, something that will make the american dream lose its flavor. That can be achieved but it takes great investments, lots of education and economic growth. Our southern neighbor is still far from that goal...
lormagins [19.01.06::05:30]
joannemerriam [19.01.06::06:29]
lormagins [19.01.06::07:39]
joannemerriam [19.01.06::09:16]
lormagins [19.01.06::09:31]
joannemerriam [19.01.06::10:13]
tyrven [20.01.06::12:46]
lormagins [20.01.06::01:04]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:39]
tyrven [20.01.06::12:49]
lormagins [20.01.06::12:59]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:52]
tyrven [20.01.06::12:20]
lormagins [20.01.06::01:07]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:46]
lormagins [20.01.06::03:49]
tyrven [19.01.06::10:06]
brothersterno [19.01.06::05:40]
We all immigrated to this country. Including "native americans"
tyrven [20.01.06::12:19]
brothersterno [20.01.06::12:33]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:38]
brothersterno [20.01.06::01:43]
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tyrven [19.01.06::09:25]
The fact that we're all immigrants doesn't mean that much to me, except in pure idealism. I think most people know that we took California from Mexico and the United States from the First Nations, but that doesn't weigh heavily on their guilt. I think the core issue is what has always been the core issue: cultural and class conflicts.

I was never surprised that my grandparents (who live in Southern California, a few miles from one of the protests next week) were racist; I chalked it up to their generation. My two aunts, however, were incredibly liberal idealists, one a hippy and the other with an activist mindset. To see them slowly change into racists was eye opening.

The source of it stems from a cultural tensions; different views of education, entertainment, community, etc. It doesn't really matter WHERE the Mexicans came from, from the perspective of whites in California, they were comfortably established and then the Mexicans moved in. (Again, not trying to justify this; I get into debates over this everytime I go home).

Also, as for the Native Americans being immigrants... technically, according to the same theory, everyone outside of Africa is an immigrant. I certainly don't expect people to feel any connection to that history (even if the concept of being immigrants had any impact on their actions -- which obviously it doesn't).
lormagins [19.01.06::09:48]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:09]
herbaliser [19.01.06::09:56]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:13]
herbaliser [20.01.06::01:18]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:57]
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mcfnord [19.01.06::04:46]
they have a history of funding Republican candidates, but I'm going to stop in and buy some crap just the same.
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glitterus [19.01.06::05:09]
Ha! Of all the reasons to boycott Home Depot... I would fully support a boycott in favor of small businesses.
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joannemerriam [19.01.06::06:32]
What I find most distressing about this is not their anti-illegal-immigrant thinking, which I have some sympathy with even though I disagree, but with them labelling people who hold the opposite view "anti-American." Excuse me, but America was built on immigration.

I think they really want to call us race traitors but don't have the balls to come right out with their real agenda.
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herbaliser [19.01.06::06:39]
Woah, so being against illegal immigration means you're a white supremecist?
joannemerriam [19.01.06::09:29]
herbaliser [19.01.06::10:02]
joannemerriam [19.01.06::10:27]
tyrven [20.01.06::01:01]
joannemerriam [20.01.06::02:24]
tyrven [20.01.06::04:01]
joannemerriam [20.01.06::01:26]
tyrven [20.01.06::11:17]
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tyrven [20.01.06::12:39]
That bothered me as well. Another thing that bothered me, which Laural pointed out, is that anti-illegal has been translated, effectively, into pro-white. And that's not specific to this website; I know tons of people that would consider themselves liberal who think like that. If you live south of the border (it doesn't matter what country or what language you speak) then there is something wrong with you.
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candid [19.01.06::10:18]
I don't know that any of the commenters understand what it's like to look in the TV Guide, see that "Die Hard" is on, turn on the TV, and then find out that it's in Spanish.

It's like a knife in the chest, is what it's like.

Is that the future we want for our children?
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tyrven [20.01.06::01:23]
I think I'm going to follow this post up with an explanation of the roots of this divide because you're absolutely right: I don't think people understand what it's like or what the real issues are. It's easy to sit in a white washed neighborhood and spout off liberal ideals of acceptance and harmony; it's another to try to figure out practical ways to mitigate very real cultural conflicts between two groups of people, especially when one represents a completely different class typically. It's a lot more complicated than people give it credit.
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