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Epistulae Ciceronis
A Perfectly Squiffy Jag

"I'd love to tug those rings just a little with my teeth."

11.08.07 Saturday
10:33 am - "I'd love to tug those rings just a little with my teeth." Previous Entry Share Next Entry
In response to a photo I posted, thaumata asks:
    so, i am curious about something: as a woman, every time i post any kind of even slightly risque photo, i can expect sleazy comments from strangers that i've never even heard of. i mean, i can post an empty shoe and get six comments from the foot guys, and there are obviously tons of men trolling for boobies on flickr, which entertains me to no end. (they are called lives... look into it...)

    but as a girl, i'm really used to this. i expect it. but i always wonder what, as a guy posting photos of women, you think about comments like this, and what it makes you think about the other people who share your gender.

    thoughts?

    ps - someone should tell that guy that beautiful has a U.
It really cracks me up. I assume people do things for a reason, so when I see comments like that I wonder what experience reinforced that behavior. I assume there are enough insecure women out there that if you go around saying shit like this that at some point you're going to get lucky.

I don't particularly take offense to it as a reflection on my gender. I've heard plenty of really stupid comments from women who obviously thought they were saying what I want to hear. Still, men seem to be more vocal and confident in their delivery. I think this is largely because men are expected to be the agressors; it's difficult to say "I want to stick it in" without coming across as a sleezeball.

What really cracks me up is when I see a nude photo of a girl and you have a dozen comments from men pretending to be art critics. "I really like how the lighting exentuates the subject's curves; the soft focus seems to express an invitation. The way her nipple shows through the lace demonstrates how our true nature is always visible. Truly a beautiful piece." There are probably guys that really think these things but when you have twenty beautiful photos in a row without comment and then a series of these critiques from men on the one nude in the set it sounds pretty stupid. When I see that, I have more respect for the guy who writes "OMG look at those jugs! I'd tap that!" because at least he's being straight.

As a photographer, it can be disappointing. I have nearly 200,000 views on my Flickr account which seems really validating. I post a picture of Brittany's ass and it gets over twenty-thousand hitsand yet many of my favorite photos have less than ten views. Brittany's tits have 2,886 views and 11 favorites in three days and yet a photo of her I like much more from the same set which has under forty views. But sex sells, right?

Which is why I'm officially announcing my decision to become a erotic porn photographer. Who's my first subject? Besides Sid?


{int i; i=25; i++}

comments
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how much do you need to see before you know i'm beautiful? - thaumata [11.08.07::06:35]
I'll do it.


That's my point, though - you have SO MANY beautiful photos and to have people look past them just to peek at a nipple - even a nice one - seems like such a waste sometimes. I guess that that's how I feel when I'm walking and some dude cat calls me... like, 'hey, thanks, but there's more here you shouldn't miss!'

I just wondered how a guy might feel about it, since I think you guys don't get to have that experience as often as girls do.


I have a general frustration with this in right now, anyway. I used to do a lot of nude photography and post it around the LJ communities - not because I wanted to show off my ass, but because I GENUINELY wanted to improve the photo quality and was looking for constructive crit. It's devolved from the occasional, "use better lighting next time" into "nice tits!" and it's super frustrating to know that the average human can't look at skin and not have their brain short out. Hard to get people to take it seriously ever.

Anyway, yeah... I'd shoot porn. At least if that was my original intention (instead of just making art) I would enjoy the cat calls. You ever see Kelly Lind or Natacha Merritt?

[User Picture]
Re: how much do you need to see before you know i'm beautiful? - tyrven [11.08.07::06:57]
This reminds me of a thread I posted a while ago with the subject "Look at my brains".

I've had a couple occasions where a man or women cat called me. I think because it's so rare it's still flattering, although I also find it embarrassing because I don't like attention being drawn to me; it makes me self-conscious. It also depends on who is doing the cat-calling; if it's some really hot chick and she seems sincere then it's pretty damned validating. If it's a large black man dressed like a pimp in a classic pink Cadillac then it's just awesome (true story; I was wearing a skirt at the time).

It's hard to separate out "art" (or the craft) from the subject. I have a lot of photos I really love but other people don't take notice of because there is no subject - it's almost photographic masturbation. The photos of mine people seem to like the most are those where it's a beautiful subject and a good photograph (unless, of course, T+A is involved). I expect men to have a sexual response to erotic art, but I agree: there is more to it and it cheapens it when that's not recognized. I suspect that's how women feel when they get attention purely for their looks as well.

I used to work in the adult entertainment industry back when they were the only people making money on the internet. I would sort through thousands of photos trying to find the ones that were beautiful; I often selected ones that had dramatic lighting, beautiful faces and left something to the imagination - that's what I liked. Several of my clients ripped the sites down after a few weeks because they weren't getting any traction; they'd replace them with hard-core photos and blinking comic sans type and quadruple their profits.
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Re: how much do you need to see before you know i'm beautiful? - thaumata [11.08.07::08:23]
i knew a guy once who ran a foot fetish website. he said the best thing about it was that he never had to worry about any of the porn laws and never had trouble finding models, because it was just pictures of feet.

from what i understand, he was making money hand over fist with it, which has always stuck in my head as a 'just in case' kind of backup plan, especially considering the percentage of my freakmail that comes from foot fetishists.
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Re: how much do you need to see before you know i'm beautiful? - tyrven [11.08.07::07:26]
mysocalledmind [11.08.07::07:49]
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Re: how much do you need to see before you know i'm beautiful? - thaumata [11.08.07::08:26]
the porn market is saturated, but GOOD porn is hard to find. i mean things along the lines of http://www.ifeelmyself.com and http://www.met-art.com/ and not the run of the mill wank site. GOOD wank sites. :)
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suxdonut [11.08.07::06:53]
/me raises hand

i aint fraid o no flickr trolls!
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lormagins [11.08.07::07:25]
i'm glad you put a strike through the word "erotic". it's porn, plain and simple. i hate that there's so many porn photographers (usually goth - eeeerrrrrggghhhh) that try to up their class factor by calling their work "erotic." no, it's porn. live it, love it, jerk off to it, whatever, but it's still porn.

i've been awfully tempted to start filming porn (not acting in, but directing/editing the flicks) just because the paycheck is fucking awesome - i had a friend in film school who paid her tuition and living expenses by directing porn.
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lormagins [11.08.07::07:26]
case in point. and that's just for acting.
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tyrven [11.08.07::07:29]
Totally. It annoys me when people can't just say it like it is. But I guess if you have "Sanitation engineers" and "Sandwich artists"...? I think there is a category of art that is best described as "erotic" - as opposed to pornography - but I think a lot of what people call erotic is not even a distant cousin.
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lormagins [11.08.07::07:30]
i think insecure people call it erotic in an effort to justify what they're doing to others and themselves. kinda like the terms "found art" and "freeganism." good lord.
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tyrven [11.08.07::07:31]
I have some "found art" I'll be posting to my blog in a couple days. We found it in a rest stop on the way back from San Francisco.
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tyrven [11.08.07::07:35]
I think you're forgetting something: if it's black and white then it's art.
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lormagins [11.08.07::07:41]
omg of course, how could I forget such a thing.

*yeeesh*
hiro_antagonist [16.01.08::03:27]
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tyrven [11.08.07::07:30]
I'll be your DP.
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lormagins [11.08.07::07:33]
awesome. now all we need is a fluffer and we've got an entry for Hump! '08.
mysocalledmind [11.08.07::07:54]
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lormagins [12.08.07::12:30]
real sex is never, ever as good as the fantasy. it's certainly more real and more raw and thus more titillating, which is why the censors hate the french flicks (it's also because those french-fry-eating fascists hate god-fearing, freedom-loving americans, but that's another story).

I've had very good real sex. Very good. It is not, nor ever will be, as good as the fantasy. Mainly because part of the fantasy is that all participants know without being told what to do and how to do it and blah blah blah and with real sex, there's a lot more practical coordination and that just totally ruins it when you know it's pre-staged. And that's why the film industry films sex scenes with fabulous lighting and with people telepathically knowing what the partner(s) what. Because we all want fabulous lighting/angles and to not have the dog walk in or the candles fall over or that accidental fart or having to actually struggle to get out of your clothes without tripping or whatever, yanno?
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tyrven [12.08.07::01:45]
Totally.
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fierceflawless [11.08.07::08:29]
I generally expect the "I'd hit it" comments, but the ones that cross over into actually commenting on specific parts of my anatomy creep me out. the first time you told me about that comment, I considered asking you to delete it, because it's just gross and uncalled for.

oh, and I'm in for the porn shoots, obvs.
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tyrven [11.08.07::10:34]
I prefer the term "grody".

Unfortunately, you're like 2,698 miles away. I should have taken you up on that while we were in San Francisco. Unfortunately, my flash was being flaky though - I really need to get that fixed before I even suggest doing a photoshoot with anyone.
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paedimonic_lim [12.08.07::12:43]
was I doing something wrong? sorry I posted so many images in your journal......I wasn't hitting on you, I just wanted to wish you well, say hello....., let you know that I'm here, and colloboraete potentially.......

be well.....

I was xpaerimtlslaekv in my last journal......

images posted in your intro posting, comments 517&518....


sometimes I post so many beaudifl images in a person's journal that they get overwhelmed and don't know what to do.....but I didn't think you... would feel that way!~....hehe!....
be well....

hehe!
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paedimonic_lim [12.08.07::12:47]
but I don't feel bad....I lov posting beaudiflimages...dammit if they feel bad......everything is sexuael/sensuael....


be well....be well.....be in infiniti bliss in your universe...!
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tyrven [12.08.07::01:43]
I didn't feel that way, at all. I love your images. I'm just really flaky at getting back to people, especially online. I'm not sure I could add much to a collaboration, but I'd be happy to contribute where I can. Otherwise, I like meeting new people.

What type of schedule do you keep? I used to be a late night person but lately I've been keeping a fairly normal schedule.
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paedimonic_lim [12.08.07::02:40]
I'm mostly doing websites for people on my own time...and looking for other work...., so right now I'm available anytime... :)
I'll send an email with my number...

I have music as well:
http://www.purevolume.com/nmeumoninmeumonipaedimonic_lim
and receive very few comments on my work....though I know it's beautifl...!

be well...be well..ubbertiubberti bell.!

:)
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fiercekitty [12.08.07::02:36]
so bizarre.
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