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Epistulae Ciceronis
A Perfectly Squiffy Jag

Castrated Men and Uptight Women.

20.10.08 Monday
01:27 pm - Castrated Men and Uptight Women. Previous Entry Share Next Entry

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tyrven [21.10.08::12:08]
I have a lot of close friends that I'd generally characterize as "nice guys" or "bad boys". I don't think it exclusively defines them, by any means, but as a label it definitely helps summarize a loose grouping of characteristics. In fact, I'd use those same labels to define myself at different periods of my life. Again [words|categories|metaphors] can be overextended, but are a convenient "anchor" to reference a concept.

I didn't get the impression this was necessarily exclusive to sex. I think some guys want sex, others want relationships; I think either can fall into the trap discussed in this thread. I also think a lot of people who want sex really want intimacy. But that's another topic altogether.
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rrhexis [21.10.08::12:36]
I make, too many mistakes when I try to categorize. --and as you indirectly point out, people change and I think people treat almost everyone they meet differently. "Bad boys" or "Himbos/brohos" can turn on a dime when the stars align and they meet "the" woman at the right time/right place and can become "henpecked."
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tyrven [21.10.08::12:57]
This is an error in the application, not the model. Every adjective represents a model. Some we're used to applying as transient, such as emotions (e.g., "happy", "sad"). Others we're used to applying as exclusive and immutable concepts, such as personalities. The latter I think is a mistake. You seem to agree, but make the assumption that someone who identifies personality patterns also makes that mistake. Certainly, this is a pattern you've identified in people :).

You mentioned you've been reading my journal for a long time. You may recall me assessment of Kiersey's book regarding the MBTI. If so, you may remember that my primary criticism of the personality system is that it assumes that people's personalities are set in stone. I strongly disagree with this.

If you read the comments on this post (as well as the Slog article it references) you'll find tons of testimonials of guys saying that they once fit the "nice guy" pattern, but have since changed. That's certainly true of me. And I'm sure the motivations for change as as varied as the men, but it's still a trend we can identify with.
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karinkarinkarin [21.10.08::02:40]
I wonder if you consequently know a lot of their counterparts, the "nice girl" and the "bad girl"? I'd think that this isn't necessarily gender-specific; both sexes are equally likely to fall into the same habits. (As a likely candidate for a "nice girl", it is difficult to tell a guy that you don't like them. But, I too, am flattered if someone likes me and has the guts to say so.)

Anyway. I give up reading the comments. There's too many of them and I got bored. This is as far as I got.
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tyrven [21.10.08::06:40]
I definitely think these traits can be applied to either gender, but that they play out different in each case.

I've had a few female friends who insist that they only get into relationships (or have sex, for that matter) because men agressively pursue them; that they, essentially, get tired of saying "no". I always found this apalling, but in the view of the female as the gatekeeper it seems like the logical end to the "nice girl" as the equivelent of spinelessness.

In my experience, the "nice girl", like her male counterpart, is non-confrontational and, thefore, in a relationship tends to bottle up her problems until they explode. As a result, relationships with "nice girls" often end abruptly and quite possibly over small misunderstandings that have been collecting interest over time.

When it comes to dating vs. relationships I definitely think there are parallels between the bad girl and bad boy. I think both are considered more attractive in the short-term. Which I think stems from the fact that both are seen as objects of sexuality and, arguably, irresponsible fun.
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herbaliser [21.10.08::04:51]
hahaha, i totally broke up with this one guy b/c HE DID NOT PICK ME UP FROM THE AIRPORT
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tyrven [21.10.08::04:59]
Jesus. Like he said he would and forgot and left you there alone and cold and waiting? Or because he was busy/tired/whatever and told you to grab a cab?

I'm fucked. I've only picked Katie up from their airport like twice.
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herbaliser [21.10.08::05:02]
the former, but my point was that it was the last thing over an escalation of inconsiderate behavior. oh, the best part was that, the previous week, he'd gotten into a car accident coming back from skiing and called me up to come pick him up from the tow truck place way the fuck out by North Bend.
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tyrven [21.10.08::05:10]
Totally. Funny aside, I had an employee who would always brag about how he dumped a girl because she didn't put the spoons away in the proper place. We always laughed at him because a) he seemed oblivious to the fact that this was likely just the straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back, but also because b) even if it had been that, it's a sort of gay-ass reason to break up with a chick (nonetheless brag about).
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